EPA Certified Conversion Kits

[Highmarker]

EPA certified conversion kit list:
http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/marketplace/MP.Analyses.NGVs-a.pdf

FAQ's on converting vehicles:
http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/marketplace/MP.Analyses.NGVs-a.pdf (http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/FAQs_Converting_to_NGVs.pdf)

Jared.
Roy, Utah

4/10/08 Edited by admins to add the following alternative fuel vehicles, motors & conversion kits along with IRS tax credit info!
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=175456,00.html


(http://www.fueltek.biz/)

[vaughnr007]

It looks as though there are several conversion kits that can be used for private vehicles. So how does a person select the best system?
Has there been a study done that compares the different systems for cost, warrenty and maintainability?

[diesel-ongas]

I am looking for any information on tanks,valves,fill fittings and regulators,If anyone could help? thankyou.

[a333f]

Does anyone know where I could find a conversion kit for a 2002 Ford Explorer and a 2002 Mitsubishi Montero Sport?

[Timon]

I was talking to CARB yesterday and found out that conversions do not qualify for HOV lane access. Only factory conversions done by a company who takes new cars from the manufacture, converts them and supports them for 70K miles can be sold and used in the HOV lanes.

So beware, you can't have someone convert your vehicle and get HOV stickers.

Also, if any changes are made to the current HOV lane program older AFV's could be booted. It looks like 7th and 8th generation Civics would be OK but older vehicles such as Civics and Fords might be at risk.

[John Mitton]

A more recent listing of EPA/CARB certified kits is here: (scroll way down to the bottom to find the link just under the heading Vehicle Information)
http://www.ngvamerica.org/resources_tools/index.html

[k45]

I checked for an EPA certified kit for a 2001 Dodge truck and it is not listed.

So I am confused. I know of people who run CNG on this model and they get their car inspected in Utah.

Is EPA certification required and if yes who enforces it?

It has been stated on this site that all kits must be EPA certified. Please give source of information. Please site Utah law.

[John Mitton]

It is actually a federal law.

Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act prohibits tampering via bypassing the emissions control system (also known as OnBoard Diagnostics or "OBD2"). The manufacturers, of course get their OBD2 computers certified for emissions compliance. Conversion kits by definition tamper with the emissions, so unless you can show the EPA that your kit is compliant with the already-certified OEM OBD2 computer, then the kit cannot be sold or installed legally in the United States.

As for enforcement, I realize that many states have no system in place to check. However, I just heard that Utah sent out a letter to all emissions certification facilities telling them to not pass any converted vehicle that does not have an EPA certification. If I can get my hands on a copy of the letter I will post it here.
{edited to add}
It is actually Utah County which sent out the letter, details here:
http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

[rtry9a]

This discussion about EPA certification bothers me a bunch- The EPA and the rest of Congress don't know squat about cng- this EPA Certification BS is all a paper shuffle designed to regulate dirty gasoline and oil burners and make the California liberals happy. The rules have no application to cng.

If a car meets emission standards, which any cng car will if it runs well, who really cares, or is the wiser for that matter If we don't make unnecessary waves? There are no standards on water vapor or carbon dioxide emissions. The exception is the bifuelers, which imho, should be tested.

[neongreen]

I agree wholeheartedly. Most of this bureacratic garbage has no purpose. If the vehicle is safe and runs clean, who cares how it became that way? There are a lot of useless federal laws. I would be willing to bet that Zero Emission Vehicles (hydrogen) are still required to have a catalytic converter just because that's what federal law mandates.

I do have a question though. What if your vehicle is not OBDII? Do you still have to jump through the EPA certification hoops?

[Oglethorp]

Having discussed the EPA Certification process yesterday with a conversion manuracturer, I can offer the following:
Each EPA Certification is Year, Model, Engine specific. Meaning, that a certification for say a 2004 GMC Yukon w/5.3 litre vortec v8, would ONLY apply to that specific vehicle. A new certification would be required for another year, or model, even though they may share EXACTLY the same engine and electronics. [Isn't this great?]
Additionally, I was told that the certification process is slow, cumbersome and expensive. An investment of over $100,000 could be required for ONE Specific certification.
This may well explain while there are many manufacturers of conversion components and entire conversion supplies, but do their business almost ENTIRELY outside of the U.S.
NO reputable manufacturer, I was told, will sell products without EPA Certification in the U.S.
Further, EPA Certified kits are sold to "Installers", to be...[you guessed it], "Installed". This brings the price of the, [for example], above vehicle installation into the approximate $4,000 range.
Yes, Regulations and re-regulations are Strangling this technology in the U.S. Sorry to have bad news. Wish you luck.
The ONLY Conversion "Kit's", [I] have located for sale, are of foreign manufacture and are NOT EPA Certified.

[cngaz]

Just wrap enough red tape around any good idea and you can squash it into the ground. It seems like the goal of our government these days.
There has to be a way to get the EPA to streamline the certification process.
I have not seen anyone have any luck with that yet, but i can always dream.
We get enough grass roots support, get our legislators ears and maybe we can get some change, congress is not real happy with the EPA right now.
Time for a new educational push & enlightenment for our representatives?
Get your pens out and make your visits, lets get busy!

[John Mitton]

Welcome to CNGchat, Oglethorp! It is nice to have someone from Alaska onboard :)

I have found that the two monopolies (Baytech for GM platforms and BAF for Ford platforms) are blowing a lot of smoke to try and discourage others from competing with them. The reality is:

1. True, EPA certs cover engine families. But it is no so dire as it seems, for example...
GM engine 8GMXB03.6148 covers:

CHEV EQUINOX
PONTIAC TORRENT
CADILLAC CTS
CHEV MALIBU
PONTIAC G6
SATURN AURA
CADILLAC SRX
CADILLAC CTS2. So long as the OEM does not make major modifications to the engine from year to year it is a very simple and inexpensive process to get an update from the EPA to carry-over the cert.

3. The actual out-of-pocket costs for a cert are closer to $50k than $100k. California (CARB) certification is on the higher end, EPA on the lower end. But getting CARB trumps EPA anyway so if you want all 50 states you simply suck it up and go for CARB. One good fleet order will cover the costs to get the cert.

4. A well-designed conversion kit should take a maximum of 2 man-days to install. Of course the installer needs to make some money too, but $4,000 is over-the-top in my opinion.

[lamarculmer]

EPA certified conversion kit list

Jared.
Roy, Utah
Would you tell me what it would cost to convert a 1996 Plymouth Acclaim with a 3.0 V6 engine to a duel fuel (Gasoline & CNG) system?
ThankQ LaMar

[CNGolf²]

I was talking to CARB yesterday and found out that conversions do not qualify for HOV lane access. (...)

Hi Timon!
I beg for pardon: what -for gods sake- is HOV???
Who or what is CARB?

(I come from Germany, the usances in Europe are a little bit different, of course. But I can't understand, what You are talking (writing) about...)

Maybe I will write a new posting about general questions... As soon as I am able to understand, what You are doing over there, Your neighbours might understand it as well ;-)

Bye! CNGolf²

[OhMyGas]

HOV = High Occupant Vehicle. In many cities in the US are special lanes for vehicles with more than 1 occupant. Also called Car Pool Lanes.
As an incentive some 'Clean Air Vehicles' are allowed to use those lanes also as a single occupant (driver only). I think those car pool lanes do exist in Germany, though.

CARB is the California Air Resource Board, responsible for emission control in California.
One can only register a new car in CA if it is CARB certified. Or use a conversion Kit, which is CARB certified.

[CNGolf²]

Thanks! Maybe I will have to ask questions like that from time to time.

No, car pool lanes are not established here in Germany. But we have bus lanes, which may be used by taxis as well. And we have "no-go-areas" for cars with high pollution, ie old Diesel and carburant-using cars with no katalysator.

Bye! CNGolf²

[cngbuck]

The EPA certification is just another way that gov't stiffs that are funded by Exxon Mobil and other powerful interests can get in the way and stifle CNG from becoming mainstream. CNG is cleaner than ANYTHING mainstream such as gas or diesel being driven by the majority of the population.

[cngaz]

Here is the latest list of EPA certified vehicles and the approved IRS tax credits for each, just posted on Clean Cities Now, it is quite extensive, and there are some good credits for larger vehicles-
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=175456,00.html

[Ben]

Pardon my ignorance, but it has been suggested in this thread that any CNG conversion that is not EPA certified is in violation of the clean air act section 203.

Here is the text of that section:

(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

Could someone please explain how non-EPA kits are in violation of this section?

Thank you,

Ben

[utahisc]

It is actually a federal law.

Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act prohibits tampering via bypassing the emissions control system (also known as OnBoard Diagnostics or "OBD2"). The manufacturers, of course get their OBD2 computers certified for emissions compliance. Conversion kits by definition tamper with the emissions, so unless you can show the EPA that your kit is compliant with the already-certified OEM OBD2 computer, then the kit cannot be sold or installed legally in the United States.

As for enforcement, I realize that many states have no system in place to check. However, I just heard that Utah sent out a letter to all emissions certification facilities telling them to not pass any converted vehicle that does not have an EPA certification. If I can get my hands on a copy of the letter I will post it here.
I talked to a veh inspection station on friday and he called emmisions inspection here in Davis county, Ut- He said cert of compliance was not required - only requirement (pre obd) was to pass tail pipe test on both fuels.

[John Mitton]

It was Utah County, see this thread:
http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

Also, non-certified conversions in Utah cannot obtain the $2,500 tax credit. The Div. of Air Quality won't approve your TC-40V application without it.

[utahisc]

Seems some conversion kits are Euro ll or Euro lll certified but not EPA certified.
Whats so wrong with the Euro ll and Euro lll standards being used in Europe?
Seems like they have been doing conversions a lot longer and a lot more than USA.
Are those conversions unsafe for all those Europeans? (they are not EPA certified are they?)

[baldpuki]

Hi all. First post. I just checked with the place I normally get my cars inspected here in Davis County, Utah. They said that they don't care if a vehicle has been converted or not, as long as it passes the tailpipe test...on pre-96 models. 96 and up, they must pass the obdII as well. That means, no engine check lights and all computer functions must be the same as before the conversion.

[afvman]

neongreen,

Did anyone ever answer your quesition re. non-OBD-II? The older OBD-I platforms were generally exempt via an EPA addendum to their 1978 Memo 1-A that started the whole 'tampering' issue.

So, carry on.

afvman/Bill

[younkin]

Bill, you are correct, Memo 1 A states that it is not tampering if the car meets the emission standards for that year and no smog equipment is taken off. Jim

[Gregor]

Where would i obtain a conversion kit for a 2006 Chevy Colorado? Is the system easy enough for a "do it yourself" install or is it better to take it to a CNG installer? If an installer is the best option does anyone have a list of installers in the southern utah area as well as a list of estimated prices/costs?

Any information would be great, i'm looking to get this system installed ASAP

[neongreen]

neongreen,

Did anyone ever answer your quesition re. non-OBD-II? The older OBD-I platforms were generally exempt via an EPA addendum to their 1978 Memo 1-A that started the whole 'tampering' issue.

So, carry on.

afvman/Bill

Thanks, Bill. Also, I think I remember reading about someone talking to the Utah County clean air office or something like that and they said that anything not OBD-II was exempt.

[younkin]

As far as I can tell, no one is saying you can't register your car whether it is OBD or OBDII' it just needs to run clean, not have any missing smog equipment and in the case of OBDII all of the readiness codes need to be set, Jim

[Korean40]

Hi,

What companies in Utah are certified installers of CNG and how do I know they are certified and not a scam?

[Highmarker]

Korean40,

There are two certifications that you "could" be referring to:

ASE Certifed CNG Mechanic: Alot of CNG conversion shops have at least one ASE certifed CNG mechanic. These mechanics are ASE certified to work on and install CNG systems.

EPA Certified Kits: Only three companies that I know install EPA certified kits. Sno-Motion (Baytech and BAF kits), Semi-Services (Impco kits), and Lancer Auotmotive (Fueltek kits). To install an EPA certified kit, you must be ASE certified.

[michaeleason]

I'm planning to convert to CNG.
I will not be pulling in somewhere to lay down a gold card to pay top dollar to have someone install something I don't understand.
I'm a do it yourselfer and skilled enough and tooled up enough to install it, Maybe even to fabricate it.
I'm looking for plans, parts, and specifications.
Can you help?

[criminallawyer]

San Marino Engineering (SME) said the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has certified the company's CNG conversion kits for use on Ford Crown Victoria sedans equipped with 4.6 L engines. To satisfy EPA certification requirements, SME converted a Crown Victoria to bi-fuel operation, accumulated 3000 miles of on-highway operation to establish deterioration factors and delivered the car to EPA's emissions certification facility in Ann Arbor, Mich.
EPA-certified SME's kit as meeting Low-Emission Vehicle (LEV) performance levels on CNG and Transitional Low-Emission Vehicle (TLEV) levels on gasoline. The SME equipment can be installed in less than eight hours, the company said, and the entire conversion process, including the installation of fuel cylinders, can be accomplished in a day.

[Lakewood90712]

Uh, Criminallawyer: A little out of date don't ya think , posting a 1998 press release :rolleyes: