new way to compress gas

[Idarusskie]

I am talking with a guy that makes acoustic refrigerators. Right now they have units that can freeze 2 GGE of methane per day and last 10 years. ( remember if you put liquid methane in a closed container and let it warm the pressure will raise very fast.) They have units that will do larger amounts ( 20 gals or more ) but the cost is higher. Right now the price is pretty steep like 20 k and 64 k for the larger ones. The trick is if you can get a couple hundred people together to each buy one. the price would drop 1/2. Thousands the costs could drop even more.


anyone interested in starting some kind of CO-OP?

[ajgiorgi]

Confused here. Home storage? Do you connect this to your Phil or something?

[Idarusskie]

no this would replace your Phill. There would be no compressor. Ya you would have to dump them in some steel tanks or something at home so you could have the right pressure when you needed it.

[Idarusskie]

They are pricey now because they are one of a kind lab models. I agree 20 k is big money.

Here is what he said about one of his models.

Perhaps our 2s241K, which draws about 5 kW of electricity and would liquefy about 25 GPD (gross, before storage losses).

That works out to be about .50 /gal( .10/KWH)

Storage loss is not a issue if you are trying to compress the gas. If you are trying to make LNG then the storage loss is a concern.

Now if you had a use for the refrigerated condition of the LNG you could regain some of the power. making Ice comes to mind as a possible use. They presently use LNG to make liquid nitrogen.

what does it cost( kilowatt hours) to compress gas with a phill.

How long does a phill last?...1000 hours?

[CNGfamily]

How long does a phill last?...1000 hours?

They are suposed to last 6000 hours, but from what I've seen on this forum, maybe you're right that they're only good for a 1000!

[Wellarmed]

Interesting thread. I have worked with LNG and can tell you it works great as a feedstock when all is going well, but when it is not, it feels like you are being burned by welding slag. I was in a situation once when a stainless line fractured, and me and my co-worker were showered in LNG. Let me tell you that you haven't fully lived life until you have bathed in a cryogenic. LNG is NOT a panacea. I have found that it is not economically viable unless you are using 10K + gallons a day, as it has a very limited shelf life and it's use dictates large volumes of consumption. It is a great Feedstock for CNG vehicles, but it wastes a tremendous amount of energy converting natural gas to LNG and then back to methane for later compression. I would be willing to wager that if you looked closely at the energy requirements to generate AND maintain liquification that it would far exceed your base energy requirement. Total Energy Cost Involved is what should be taken into consideration. You must also be aware that when you "freeze" natural gas, that constituant gases will drop out of the final product and many of those components should not be vented to atmoshpere. Many of these gases can be captured and utilized in various industries, which will help defray the costs of liquification. There is the need for small scale gas treatment processing, but, you must find demand in local markets for this small scale processing to be viable. Check out the use of Vortox tubes, as they are used currently in industry to cool electronics in machinery. They can be ganged in certain configurations to process natural gas, as well as other gasses, but look closely at the initial energy requirements and you will see that such processing is only done at extreme energy consumption. In my eyes, the only way that I could justify this treatment process is if the methane were of very bad quality and would be flared or vented to atmosphere otherwise.

[cowboy]

it think most lng is cooled by expanding compressed gas that has had the heat removed so the gas gets so cold it becomes a liquld so you would stilll have the cost of compression so I see no gain for small users but I am not up to speed on this so I could be far off base